Business Growth Architect Show: Founders of the Future

Ep #191: Dr. Debi Silber: The Truth About Betrayal No One Talks About…

• Beate Chelette • Episode 191

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Betrayal cuts deep. It’s not just emotional pain but often impacts your health, your work, and your ability to trust again. In this episode of the Business Growth Architect Show: Founders of the Future, I sit down with Dr. Debi Silber, founder of the PBT (Post Betrayal Transformation) Institute, to uncover why betrayal is a different kind of trauma and why traditional healing or talk therapy approaches can often keep us stuck instead of setting us free.

Debi shares her own powerful story of family and marital betrayal, how she turned her quest to heal her pain into a PhD, and the groundbreaking discoveries she made through her research. We talk about Post-Betrayal Syndrome and how symptoms like digestive issues, migraines, brain fog, or chronic fatigue can stem from unresolved wounds. More importantly, she reveals the five predictable stages of healing and why so many people never move past Stage 3, the survival mode.

This conversation is raw, real, and full of insights that will challenge how you think about betrayal, forgiveness, and healing. If you’ve ever been hurt by someone you trusted, this episode will give you tools and hope for a new way forward. 👉 What happened to you is bad enough, don’t let betrayal define your future. Watch now and visit PBTInstitute.com to learn more about Dr. Debi Silber’s transformative programs.

💡 If you’ve carried betrayal wounds for years, this episode will give you hope, tools, and a path forward.

🔔 Subscribe for more episodes of the Business Growth Architect Show: Founders of the Future

👍 If this episode resonated, please like and share—it helps us reach more people who need this message.

💬 I’d love to hear from you in the comments: What stage of betrayal healing do you feel you’re in right now?


Resources Mentioned: Website | Instagram | LinkedIn | Facebook | From Betrayal to Breakthrough Podcast

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Dr. Debi Silber:

I had a really painful betrayal from my family, and then it happened again a few years later, this time, it was my husband

BEATE CHELETTE:

that shattered your sense of self.

Dr. Debi Silber:

We can't show up effectively. Our confidence was shattered, releasing the power all that pain has over us. Betrayal is a different type of trauma that needs a different way to heal. If you're stuck, no ritual is going to get you out. Change begins when you tell yourself the truth.

BEATE CHELETTE:

Welcome back. Beate Chelette here today, we are with Dr. Debbie Silver, and we are addressing a crazy, crazy topic that I think you all need to be hearing. So my first question to you is, are you carrying a wound, a betrayal so deeply that shattered your sense of self, and what did you do about it?

Dr. Debi Silber:

Yeah, it's a betrayal. Is one of those things where it's we don't see it, so we don't recognize it, we don't validate we don't speak about it. But it greatly impacts how we show up in our work, in our health, in our relationships, of course, and I see it particularly, and I think this is what will really resonate with your audience. When we have low morale, low productivity, absenteeism, their betrayal shatters the self. So whether it's we're working within a company or, let's say, we're representing our own business, we can't show up effectively. We can't put ourselves out there, because our confidence was shattered, right? We we don't trust a boss, a co worker, a collaborative partner. It affects everyone and everything. So it all needs to be cleaned up. And the beauty, the beauty of all of that, is, there's a way to do all of it.

BEATE CHELETTE:

I love that, so I want to dive in this for you, though, what was the trigger event for you to do the work that you do? And what does the PBT Institute instead for? Yeah, so

Dr. Debi Silber:

I don't think anybody says, you know, I think I want to study betrayal. No, no, you you said it because you have to. So I've been in business close to 34 years now, and it was health, mindset, personal development. I had a really painful betrayal from my family. I thought I did all I needed to do to heal from that. And then it happened again a few years later. This time, it was my husband that was the deal breaker. Got him out of the house, looked at the two experiences, thinking, what's similar to these two? Of course, me, but what else? And I realized I never took my own needs seriously. Boundaries were always crossed, and I'm one of those believers. You know, it's like if nothing changes, nothing changes. So usually I went to courses or books or something to help me heal, and there wasn't anything available, so I decided to enroll in a PhD program. So here it was, four kids, six dogs, a thriving business, going back for a PhD at 50. And while I was there, I did a study, and I studied betrayal, and I just wanted to study it so that I could help myself, help my clients, of course, help my kids. And that study led to three groundbreaking discoveries, which changed my health, my family, my work,

BEATE CHELETTE:

my life beautiful. And we'll go into that in a second. But before I go there, I want to really articulate this. Why could you not just forgive I mean, isn't that what everybody else says is like, hey, it happened. Big deal. You know, good things happen. Bad things happen to good people. Just let it go, move on. What was it about that that you felt that was not the way to go. Yeah.

Dr. Debi Silber:

Well, it's interesting you say that because I'm the founder of national forgiveness day, September 1. I'm a big believer in forgiveness, but forgiveness really has nothing to do with the other person. It has everything to do with the self. It has everything to do with us, releasing the power all that pain has over us as it relates to healing from betrayal when, let's say, you're trying to rebuild with that person. And I even remember when I was doing my own study, reading a study about this, and it made so much sense, if you feel safe and valued and you forgive, you feel better. If you do not feel safe and valued and you forgive, you feel worse, there's a very important timeframe for forgiveness, not certainly not early on. It backfires every single time, but when it's done at the right time for the right reasons, because it's about you, then it accelerates your healing. For sure, you know what I'm hearing Debbie is that it's almost like you had to get yourself to a particular emotional point or a logical piece. I've had significant betrayal in my life, and I always describe it as the waiting for the other shoe to drop. What was that for you that you could get yourself to this particular point to even. To sort of acknowledge that. I mean, wouldn't you want to protect yourself from the other shoe to drop? Yeah, you know, it's interesting, because logic has so little to do with betrayal and with forgiveness, and you actually have to bypass the logical rational mind, because everything in the logical rational mind says, Are you crazy? Why would you forgive? Why would you but when you realize it has nothing to do with that person, it's so that you're free, so that you have that past. I think people, people feel that forgiving means I'm setting myself up for it to happen again. I'm weak, I'm a sucker. I'm I have no boundaries in place, not at all, not at all. You're not expecting that other person to change. You're just saying, I'm not giving you any more of my power because it's taken way too much from me already. Think about it. If we have, let's say, best case scenario, 100% of our energy, and if 40, 50, 60% of it is spent on, what are they doing? What are they thinking? Why'd they do this? All of that, we only have the remainder to heal. That's not fair to us. And it's so interesting, because I remember when we were doing a 21 day forgiveness journey. Now it's a program, and one, there was a woman in our program, and she had a 70 plus year digestive issue so common after betrayal from a family, betrayal, she was adopted. They didn't tell her it was like that kind of thing. She was in her mid 80s, 70 plus years with a digestive issue. Two weeks in. I were maybe even one weekend, but two weeks in, I'll say two weeks. And I don't even think it was that long healed from a 70 plus year digestive issue because of how she dealt with the root of it, which was the betrayal, releasing through forgiveness.

BEATE CHELETTE:

Well, I mean, how surprised will you be that I tell you that I have a 40 year digestive issue?

Dr. Debi Silber:

Yeah, yeah. And it's so common. I mean, 45% we did a and if we get into the study, I'll share some of the stats for post betrayal syndrome. That's a real thing. And we've, we've had over, easily, over 100,000 people take our post betrayal syndrome quiz to see to what extent they're struggling. 45% of everybody betrayed has a digestive issue, Crohn's, IBS, diverticulitis, constipation, diarrhea, you name it. So common. Well, think about it. Look what the gut does. It absorbs, digest and processes food. Well, think about a betrayal. Isn't that difficult to absorb, digest and process

BEATE CHELETTE:

well. And you know, it's interesting that you say that when we lost our home, the last six months have been horrific for my digestion. I mean, I've never even experienced anything like this. About a month ago, had to really sit down and say, Okay, how am I going to address this? And I did this with somatic trauma release and better supplements and really getting myself my head around, sort of what's what's going on. But you say getting my head around it isn't really what I need to be doing. What should I be doing? I mean,

Dr. Debi Silber:

that's a great part of it, but it is a part of it. That's what happens with when there's, there's a shock to the body, to the mind, to the heart. What we often do is this, these are the things we typically do, we will go to a therapist, right? And here's the thing, well meaning therapists, but if they're not highly skilled in betrayal, we will feel heard, validated, understood. We're not an inch closer to healing, and that's part of the third discovery, or we numb ourselves because it's so painful. So we may run to the doctor who puts us on a mood stabilizer, anti anxiety medication. We may use food, drugs, alcohol, work, TV, anything right to distract ourselves that's gonna prevent us from healing as well. Or we'll join a support group, some type of support group, and it usually becomes the Indian awful club where it's someone shares their story, and it's like, Oh, you think that's bad. This is what happened to me. This is what happened to me. This what happened to me. And what happens is we actually sabotage our healing, because now we found our people, and we have this in common. And if we heal, and if we if we actually move forward? Well, what happens to our group now? So very specific reasons why we sabotage ourselves and why we stay stuck, but

BEATE CHELETTE:

so powerful, yeah, I, you know, as you're saying this, I can't help but think about as a, as a, you know, coach, consultant, and I run a couple groups a lot of times. You know, the teaching says you need to stay in Gestalt, which means you cannot give anybody advice. You have to give a relatable example. And I remember this very vividly. I was once in a in a group, and I recognized that I could not. Stay, because all these Gestalt experiences that I could access were all my traumatizing experiences, and every time I walked out of that, I felt horrible afterward, and eventually I had to quit because I said I don't need to go anywhere to re trauma re, traumatize myself over and over again. So you talk about a framework for healing betrayal. So let's talk first about what types of betrayals are there. Because maybe people are not even aware that they carry this betrayal with

Dr. Debi Silber:

it. You know, I define betrayal as the breaking of a spoken or unspoken rule, and every relationship has them. And the way it works is, the more we trust, the more we depend on someone, the deeper the betrayal. So for example, a child who's completely dependent on their parent, and the parent does something awful that's going to have a different impact than, let's say, your co worker taking credit for your idea. You see, still betrayals, different level of cleanup, but it's whenever there was the breaking of that spoken or unspoken rule. Like, let's say at work, you have your boss, and maybe the idea was, and the understanding was, you do this work, you'll get this raise, and then you don't, that's a betrayal. Or you're you're bypassed for that promotion and it was promised to you. That's a betrayal. Or it could be, when mom with you have siblings, when mom and dad are older, we'll take care of them, and all of a sudden, of a sudden, mom and dad are older, and where are the siblings? You see, it's a betrayal, or your your best friend sharing your secret self betrayal. We know something or someone is not in our best interest, and we still keep doing it. That's, that's a betrayal as well. So it's, it's the breaking of that spoken or unspoken rule,

BEATE CHELETTE:

I think the keeping of the word is really critical. I mean, in all the spiritual teachings that I've studied, one of the most critical pieces is specifically the word that you give yourself when you say something and you don't do it, you're now training yourself to not keep your own word, and I think it has very intense and lasting consequences. I talk about this all the time with my clients. Do not over promise, only promise, what you can actually

Dr. Debi Silber:

keep. Yeah, and you know that's such an important piece when it comes to rebuilding trust. Trust is absolutely shattered with betrayal and self trust gets shattered too, because the way it works is, now we're looking at the person that we trusted the most, and the next thing is, well, I can't trust that person. Wait a second, where was I? How did I not see? How did I not know? So if I can't trust the person I trusted the most and I can't trust myself, how in the world. Can I trust in anything and anyone? So we have to rebuild trust from the ground up. And an important piece of that is, is rebuilding self trust, where you say something and you do it, and it can be as simple as I'll drink that glass of water, and you do. I'm going to make that phone call, and you do. And what you are doing is you are showing yourself My word is law. If I say something I mean it, I can be trusted, and it's a really helpful and important step in rebuilding trust.

BEATE CHELETTE:

I love that. I so So, so, so, so love that. So let's talk about your work. Now I come to you and you are you said your research discovered a completely new framework for healing. Tell me about that.

Dr. Debi Silber:

Yeah. Well, the first discovery was that betrayal is a different type of trauma that needs a different way to heal. Most people just look at betrayal as as a trauma like death of a loved one or or disease or natural disaster. And the difference is the invitation is to rebuild your life after an experience like that, but with betrayal, you have to rebuild your life, not you don't have to. That's the invitation rebuild your life and rebuild yourself. So that betrayal is a different type of trauma that needs a different way to heal. That was the first discovery. The second discovery was there's a collection of symptoms, physical, mental and emotional so common to betrayal. It's known as post betrayal syndrome. I can share those stats later on. But to answer your question, the third discovery was the framework, and this, for me, was the most exciting of the three discoveries. And what we learned was, while we can stay stuck for years, decades, a lifetime, and most people do, you said 40 years for digestive issues, so there's still some stuckness there, right? If we're going to fully heal, we will move through Five proven, predictable stages. And what's even more exciting about that is we now know what happens physically, mentally and emotionally at every stage, and we know how to move from one stage to the next. Healing is entirely predictable. Happy to share the stages if you want to hear

BEATE CHELETTE:

them, I think, I think we must share them with the audience.

Dr. Debi Silber:

Go ahead. All right, because that would have been an awkward moment if you said no, but

BEATE CHELETTE:

okay, I was like, hey, you know, this was a great podcast, and goodbye now, and we just leave you hanging here.

Dr. Debi Silber:

Okay, so everyone will know exactly what stage they're in when. I share these. Of course, this is all we do within the PBT Institute. This is what I certify our coaches, PBT coaches in I will give you a distilled version here. So stage one is before it happens. And if you can imagine four legs of a table, the four legs being physical, mental, emotional and spiritual, what I saw with everybody, me too, was a heavy lean on the physical and the mental, thinking and doing. We're so great at that, and kind of neglecting or ignoring the emotional and the spiritual feeling and being well, if a table only has two legs, it's going to be easy for that table to topple over. That's us. Stage two, shock trauma, D Day, Discovery day. This is the scariest of all of the stages. Everybody remembers their D Day. And this is the breakdown of the body, the mind and the worldview. So right here, you've ignited the stress response. You're now headed for every single stress related symptom, illness, condition, disease. This is where your gut issue started. Right here, your mind is in a state of overwhelm. You cannot wrap your mind around what you just really learned makes no sense, and your worldview has been shattered. That's your mental model, the rules that govern you, that prevent chaos, don't go there. Trust this person. These are the rules, and in one earth shattering moment, every rule you've been holding on to is no longer. The bottom has bottomed out, and a new bottom hasn't been formed yet. This is terrifying, but think about it, if the bottom were to bottom out on you, what would you do? You'd grab hold of anything or anyone in order to stay safe and stay alive. And that's stage three. Survival Instincts emerge. This is the most practical out of all of the stages. If you can't help me, Get out of my way. How do I survive this? Who can I trust? Where do I go? Here's the trap, though, stage three, by far, hands down, is the most common place. We get stuck. Most of your clients are right here. You'll see it. Here's why, once we've figured out how to survive our experience, because it feels so much better than the shock and trauma we just came from. We think it's good. And because we don't know there's anywhere else to go, we don't know there's a stage four, stage five transformation doesn't even begin until stage four. But because we don't know anything about that, we plant roots here. We're not supposed to, but we don't know that. And four things start to happen. The first thing is we start getting all of those small self benefits. We get our story like the group you were in, everybody had their story, right? We love that. We love our story. We get to be right. We get sympathy from everyone. We tell our story to we get someone to blame. We get a target for our anger. We don't have to learn how to trust again, all these kinds of things. So we're so unhappy, but these feel like benefits. So we say we plant deeper roots. And now the mind starts doing things like, maybe you're not that great, maybe it's you. Maybe you deserved it. So we plant deeper roots. And now, because these are the thoughts we're thinking. This is the energy we start putting out. And like energy attracts like energy. So now we start attracting conversations and relationships and circumstances and experiences to prove this is where you belong and and here's where we join that group. Here's where we go to therapy. Here's where, and, like I said, well meaning therapist, but you're you're feeling heard, validated, understood. You're like, why am I? Like, stuck? It's like crazy glue to stage three. Here's where you're actually healing, but you will sabotage your healing because you're afraid to outgrow your betrayer. It gets worse, but I'll get you out of here, because it feels so

BEATE CHELETTE:

thank you. Yeah, I can't leave you like, in my mind, I'm like, going through this as you're talking right, of course. And this is where most people say, right, but because, uh huh, yeah, that sounds about right. Yes, go ahead,

Dr. Debi Silber:

exactly so, but because it's so miserable. But you don't know there's anywhere else to go, right. Here we start numbing, avoiding, avoiding distracting. So here's where we start using the food, drugs, alcohol, work, TV, whatever we do, it for a day, a week, a month. Now it's a habit a year, 10 years, 20 years, 40 years. And I can see someone 40 years later and say that digestive issue, do you think that has anything to do with your betrayal? They look at me like I'm crazy. It happened decades ago. All we did was put ourselves in stage three and stay there. Does that make sense?

BEATE CHELETTE:

Yes, I do, because there are no tools at this stage that are widely known. And if you go into therapy, as you say, a lot of the talk therapy just keeps you there, because you keep talking about and your feelings about that, and then you mount the story, and what does it mean to you, and how do you feel about it. And then you are listening to the opposite of what I should be doing. I'm now justifying and going deeper into my. Like to feel this particular way

Dr. Debi Silber:

Exactly. Can I get you into stage four?

BEATE CHELETTE:

Please go ahead. I'm I'm ready. We're done with stage three.

Dr. Debi Silber:

Okay, if, if we're willing. Willingness is a big word right here. Willing to let go of our story, grieve, mourn the loss. A bunch of things we need to do we move to stage four. Stage four is finding and adjusting to a new normal. So here's where we acknowledge, I can't change what happened, but I control what I do with it. Right there in that decision, you're turning down the stress response. You're not healing just yet, but at least you stop the massive damage that was being created in stages two and stage three, stage four feels like if you've ever moved, if you've ever moved to new house, office, condo, apartment, whatever, your stuff's not there. It's not cozy yet, but it's like this hopeful excitement, right? It feels like that. But think about it, if you were to move, you don't take everything with you. You don't take those things that don't represent who you're now ready to become same thing here, there's a spot as people move from stage three to stage four, if your friends weren't there for you, they're not coming along. That support group that was just rehashing everything you're done, that therapist, were you just feeling heard, validated, understood, you're done? That betrayer who's not changing you're done. And people ask me all the time, Dr, Debbie, is it me? Yes, it is. You're undergoing a transformation, and if they don't rise, they don't come along. So very, very new space, very action oriented. Anyway, when you settle into this new space, you make it cozy, you make it kind of mentally home. You move into the fifth most beautiful stage, and this is healing, rebirth and a new world view. The body starts to heal, self love, self care, eating, well, exercise. We didn't have the bandwidth for that earlier. Now we do. The mind is healing. We're making all kinds of new rules, new boundaries based on what we see so clearly, and we have a new world view based on everything we've just been through. And the four legs of that table in the beginning, it was all about the physical and the mental. By this point, we're solidly grounded because we're focusing on the emotional and the spiritual too. Those are the five stages I love,

BEATE CHELETTE:

that it's interesting and as an experience, share. What I have noticed now going into eight months after this catastrophe is that I certainly was numbing. You know, alcohol helps when you are in a place like this, and a lot of the stuff now is changing my meditation practice, my self care practice, I have given myself a lot more grace as to where I am in my healing and not being mad that I just can't focus sometimes, or I'm incredibly tired, and now I'm giving myself permission to sleep. And it's simple things like when you put body lotion on yourself, and one of my clients had taught me that. She says, one of your self care protocols, you can see how your love for yourself is on how you apply body lotion. I'm like, What do you mean? She says, are you just, you know, like, rush, rush, rush, rush, rush, rush, or are you actually taking the time to feel what your skin feels like, the nourishing and you make that a ritual, you know? Could this be a ritual? And so I think, how do you how do you tell your clients our audience, what are maybe some of the things that they can do listening now to this podcast and say, How do I get myself on this point of healing? Are there some rituals we could recommend them to immediately start on,

Dr. Debi Silber:

yeah, but before that, I would really invite them to consider, are they are they stuck? Because if you're stuck, no ritual is going to get you out of that stuckness, so it'll help. But these are four questions that I invite everybody to write down. That's my way of saying, write it down. And these are, this is how you'll know if you're stuck ready. Am I numbing, avoiding distracting? If so, how like call yourself on it. You know, do you? Do you go into the kitchen, you're not the least bit hungry, and there you are raiding the cabinets. Or are you do? You go into a room and you put on some music, or a TV, anything to drown out the sound of your own thoughts, right? The second question, what am i Pretending not to see? It's a deep question, am i Pretending not to see that my relationship is in trouble? Am I pretending not to see I hate my job by pretending not to see that health issue that needs my attention? Call yourself on it. Third question, what's life going to look like in five to 10 years if I keep this going play out exactly how you're managing, not managing, this relationship, business, health issue, five to 10 years, if you were to keep doing what you're doing or not doing i. What does that look like five to 10 years from now? Right? Like, take a look. And the fourth question, what can life look like in five to 10 years if I change now? I'm not saying change is easy, but change begins when you tell yourself the truth. So once you realize what you're working with now, your rituals can work so much better for you.

BEATE CHELETTE:

Wow, that's beautiful. Yeah. I think this self awareness. Why are people holding on to the story? What is it about that they

Dr. Debi Silber:

don't understand that there's something so much better for them, the most important people in my life all betrayed me. But look at the story I have now. 1000s of people you know that are being helped, the the books, the podcasts, the TEDx talks, the certifications, the right, the story now is so much better. But when we don't know there's anything better, we cling, cling on to the familiar, known only, only because it's familiar. That's the only benefit. Is that it's familiar, just like every single thing in your life was once unfamiliar and had and you did it, and it's become familiar. This is something that's familiar, and you're sticking with it only because of that unfamiliar, known that is so much better. And if you knew what stages four and five, felt like I promised you wouldn't waste a minute in stage three.

BEATE CHELETTE:

I remember this when I was in my Ayahuasca journey, and we had really come up with a story, and I looked at this from a different perspective, and then there was almost this moment of fear to let the story go, because I had held on to it for so long, and that was the meaning that gave reason on why things were a particular way. And I remember thinking, if I let that go, it's like all of this disappears. Then what was all of this for? How do you guide them through the fear that the meaning that their life has had this entire time suddenly disappears? Because I think it sends people in a tailspin to let that go?

Dr. Debi Silber:

Oh, absolutely, that's the difference between resilience and transformation. I'm going to give you an example using an analogy of a house, and in my it was in I believe the second TEDx talk to you have post betrayal syndrome. I talk about this, and imagine an old house, and imagine the old house needs a paint job, and you paint that's resilience. You're bringing it back. You're restoring right? Transformation is a whole different thing. Or like, imagine it needs a new roof, and you get a roof that's resilience. Here's here's trauma and transformation. A tornado comes by and levels the house. A new paint job is not going to fix it, and a new roof's not going to fix it, right? But here's the thing, you have every right to stand there at the lot where your house wants to say, this is the most horrible thing that's ever happened, you'd be right. And you can call everybody over that you know, and say, Isn't this so terrible? They'd all agree, and you can kick and scream and cry and mourn until your last breath. However, should you choose to rebuild the house? You don't have to, but if you choose to, why would you build the same one? There's nothing there. Why not give it everything the old house didn't have? Right? Make it better, make it more beautiful. That's the opportunity. After betrayal, everything has crashed and burned, and what you're doing is you're bringing all the parts of you that you love, and you're leaving behind everything that no longer serves so here's the thing, it's we get to redefine once everything has broken down, we don't have to rebuild it the same way. The beauty is, there's nothing there to from the old. We're rebuilding something entirely new, and we get to create something that otherwise wouldn't have had the opportunity to be created. That's trauma. Well served.

BEATE CHELETTE:

I love that. I love that so much. Well, this has been really powerful. Sometimes I feel very privileged that I can bring people on the show that helped me myself as I'm as I'm going through, literally rebuilding off the house. It is a redesigning on what will work better, and it's just a painful process. So for somebody who now goes maybe it is time for me to look into my own betrayals and let them go. Where do we send them?

Dr. Debi Silber:

Thank you. Everything is at the PBT as in post betrayal transformation, the pbtinstitute.com we even have programs for the betrayer too, for the betrayer who blew up their lives and realized they want to become someone they're proud of, and they do so beautifully in our program, separate community, so there's no triggering, but a separate curriculum. But they do great. So we have for the betrayed, for the betrayer, and, of course, our certification program.

BEATE CHELETTE:

Thank you so much. This has been an amazing episode. I really appreciate you being here, and as somebody who's carried a significant amount of wounds. So I can only share with our audience today. If you think there might be something there, believe it and do something about it. And with today's episode, we've given you some great ideas on how to go about it. Dr Debbie, thank you so much for being on the show. It's been an amazing conversation, and I hope I get to see you soon again. Thank you until next time and GOODBYE. That's it for this episode of the Business Growth Architect Show, Founders of the Future, if you're done playing small and ready to build the future on your terms, subscribe, share and help us reach more Trailblazers like you, and if you're serious about creating, growing and scaling a business that's aligned with who you are, schedule your uncovery session at uncoversion.com lead with vision. Move with purpose. Create your future.

People on this episode

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Beate Chelette

Host
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Dr. Debi Silber

Guest