Business Growth Architect Show: Founders of the Future

Ep #175: Penelope Holt: The Truth About Purpose-Driven Success (And Why Strategy Alone Fails)

• Beate Chelette • Episode 175

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Tired of fake, polished marketing that doesn’t connect? In this episode, Penelope Holt shares how spiritual principles like authenticity and alignment can unlock deeper success—for your business and yourself.


There are episodes that inform, and then there are episodes that transform—and this one is the latter. I am sitting down with Penelope Holt who shares deep insights in the world of emotional intelligence, storytelling, and purpose-driven business. Penelope is the author of Business Emotions at Work and she brings decades of experience as a ghostwriter and marketing expert for entrepreneurs who want to build meaningful brands.

Our conversation began with the big question we explore on this podcast: Can business and spirituality coexist? Penelope didn’t just say yes—she explained why they must. She introduces the idea of the “Tao of Entrepreneurship,” a path where aligning with the natural flow of the universe actually fuels your business growth. We talked about how people often chase success by focusing solely on tactics, metrics, and strategy—when in reality, it’s their emotional and spiritual grounding that determines whether they thrive or burn out.

One of the most powerful moments in this episode was when we reflected on loss, including my own experience with the Palisades Fire. Penelope’s take on what really sustains us during devastating moments brought me to tears. She believes—and I agree—that our greatest rewards come not from manipulating outcomes, but from showing up with generosity, honesty, and trust. We talked about what it means to give without expectation, to receive openly, and to live from a place of alignment rather than performance.

If you’ve ever wondered whether your spiritual values have a place in your business, or if you’re feeling called to build something deeper than just a profitable model, this episode is for you. Penelope’s voice is one of clarity and compassion, and she reminds us that authenticity is becoming the most valuable currency in the marketplace. After you listen, I encourage you to dive deeper into her work at PenelopeHolt.com—it’s a resource every conscious leader should know about.


Resources Mentioned:  Website | Linkedin | Instagram 

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Penelope Holt:

Hi. My name is Penelope Holt. I am the author

of "Business Emotions At Work:

A Personal Operating System for Success in Business." I'm also a fiction author. My recent book,"The Angel Scroll" is a spiritual mystery and thriller. You can reach me at penelopeholt.com we had a great conversation today talking about the DAO of the entrepreneur, which is the path that the entrepreneur can walk by integrating spiritual principles into their business life so that success comes to them no matter what. And

BEATE CHELETTE:

hello, fabulous person! Beate Chelette here. I am the host of the Business Growth Architect Show, and I want to welcome you to today's episode where we discuss how to navigate strategy and spirituality to achieve time and financial freedom. Truly successful people have learned how to master both a clear intention and a strategy to execute that in a spiritual practice that will help them to stay in alignment and on purpose. Please enjoy the show and listen to what our guest today has to say about this very topic. And welcome back. Beate Chelette here, the host of the Business Growth Architect Show. And today I am here with guest Penelope Holt, and we are going to be talking about spirituality and how to integrate spirituality into entrepreneurship. Because I think it is safe to say that a lot of people see spirituality as the one thing, and then what they do in business as the other thing. And you're here to tell us otherwise. Penelope, thank you so much for being on the show.

Penelope Holt:

Welcome. Thank you for inviting me. I'm looking forward to it.

BEATE CHELETTE:

So for somebody who's not familiar with who you are or what you do, would you tell us who you are, what you do, and what do you solve for your clients?

Penelope Holt:

Well, I was born and educated in England. I always wanted to be a writer, storyteller. I did begin creatively. It was easier to make a living doing business, writing and helping entrepreneurs to tell the story of their brand or to write books, because there's usually an underlying story or principle that are guiding business people. They have a passion, they have a story that they want to tell. So I've spent a lot of my career as a ghost writer, as a business writer, as a speech writer, telling the story of brands, making them meaningful and relevant. In fact, the great brand builders that you look back on the forwards with the Hallmark Cards, for example, it came from an individual's passion. It wasn't concocted in a test tube. So there has to be a degree of authenticity behind every great brand and every great entrepreneur. And my job has been to work with entrepreneurs and help them find that, and then to kind of counsel them. And in the process of doing that, becoming somewhat of a confidant and understanding that the spiritual or the emotional input is often the engine that will fuel the mission, and not just the textbooks or the theory that you learn at business school, which is really

BEATE CHELETTE:

exactly where I want to be today, one of the things that I have noticed is that when people are connected to their purpose and their passion, they work better. They have more fun. But a lot of people don't know how to do that, or they think they follow this old idea that you have to have a boring, cold, terrible job, and then you make a lot of money, or you have a really great job that you love, and then you make no money. Yeah, is that

Penelope Holt:

the truth? No. I mean, it's manifest in nonprofits. We give people permission in a nonprofit, mission oriented business to be purposeful, like that. But in business, the idea is that it's rational, it's cold, it's it's numbers, it's been counting, it's theory, and that's and we're actually, we're actually taught that to separate. So I wrote a book a couple of years ago with a co author called

"Business Emotions At Work:

A Personal Operating System For Business Success," which brings emotion and spirituality into the realm of work, because when you walk through the door of the office, you don't just leave all of that behind. But there is a self consciousness about acknowledging it, and about actually using not only business good sound, business principles, but good sound spiritual principles to guide you. And I would I, especially for entrepreneurs, I would hazard the bet that the spiritual principles are actually going to fuel your success more, more even than the business principles themselves. Because, like you said, it's the underlying drivers, the passion, the purpose, that keeps us going when, when, often the business looks like it can be going down. It's the ones who keep going. And the ones that keep going are usually motivated by some deeper principles than just the balance sheet. So

BEATE CHELETTE:

you keep talking about those principles. So that makes me believe that you have figured out what these principles are, because a lot of people say, Well, what is spirituality? How do I even start? Can you help us understand let's say I'm curious about this, and I think a lot of people really are. They know that they need a deeper meaning, but they have no idea where to start. They have no idea how to even get into it. What are you going to tell them?

Penelope Holt:

Well, I think different people can. There's perennial wisdom and spirituality out there, and it speaks differently to different people. People take very different journeys. I'm always very interested and curious about the spiritual technologies that people use and find that speak to them, that they use as their operating system. Back in sixth century China, there was a Chinese philosophy called the DAO, the path. So I think that should be a DAO of entrepreneurship, the path of entrepreneurship, so on. In the DAO of entrepreneurship, these are five principles that that speak to me and that I used, and if they're useful to other people, if not, I would say, Be on the lookout for some of those spiritual teachings that move you and integrate them into the whole of your life, including business. So to begin with, in Taoism, the belief is that if you align yourself with the universe, with the natural underlying principles of the universe, that you will live in harmony and peace and success. And so similarly, in business, if you align yourself with your underlying spiritual goals. You're going to go a lot further. You're going to go a lot further. And there's a saying in Buddhism that the path is the goal. So in business, we're always trying to get somewhere. We're trying to get to the fundraising stage or the revenue stage, or the acquisition stage, or cashing out, or profitability is always in the future. And what we don't do is we don't understand that it's actually going through the whole entrepreneurial experience that is the goal, that is the reward. Of course, the money and the success and the status are great, but really, really what feeds you is the learning. They say that experience is what you get five minutes after you need it. So the experience and reflecting on that experience is what helps you grow in different dimensions, particularly if your intention is that you want to not only grow your bank account, but that you want to grow your emotional and your spiritual self.

BEATE CHELETTE:

Is it fair to say that spirituality is so challenging for people because it is such a non tangible thing. Like, how do you address that? Because people want tangible ideas, right? So if I say the reward is the journey, which you don't really understand until you're older. Like, you can't tell this 20 year old because the 20 year old goes like, Nope, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. High school was terrible. Middle School, that's not even talk about that. Now I'm in college. There's nothing about this that I find, you know, super enjoyable. I just want to get to have the money, buy the car, get the house, you know, do whatever I want to do. What is it that is so difficult about these spiritual concepts, to understand them or integrate them? You know, where I want to go with this question is the logical tangibility that people always look for in strategies and systems and executions, KPIs. How do we handle this with spirituality? Well, I

Penelope Holt:

think it's a natural, natural evolution of youth. They say that in the course of our lives, there are three M's. There is mastery, meaning and mystery. And in the beginning, when you're young, you're trying to master the the moves. You're trying to learn how to be an accountant or or an MBA. And so you're very focused on that you've learned in your childhood. If you've been well raised about, you know the golden rule, that's the first lesson in spirituality that we get. The golden rule. We tell kids, you treat other people the way you want to be treated. I think people carry that into business, and then they get very confused, because they see a lot of, there's a lot of bad behavior that happens in business. There's a lot of especially right now, especially right now, getting ahead of other people's expense. And I think for young people, it's easier to think, Oh, my goodness, if I sign up for these more spiritual, altruistic means, then I'm some kind of a loser. I'm going to come in last, right? The good guys come in last. So I think in the beginning, as a young person, you're trying to take it all in. You're trying to understand the rules and to your point, no one is standing what? Well, in some companies that are purposeful, especially nonprofit, some companies that have visionary leaders will introduce spiritual principles into the workplace, but mostly what young people are learning is rat race, dog eat dog, get ahead all costs. I think it's very ironic that a lot of businesses put their missions and their values into these elaborate mission statements, and then ironically, you see people just violating them on a daily basis. That's cognitive dissonance right there. If you're a young person coming in and you see these values. Values and mission statements, you know, printed on the website and on posters around the corporate offices, and then see people behaving in the exact opposite you have to get a little bit older and wiser to understand that you're going to play by the rules of your own game, and that those rules are going to be spiritual rules, because at the end of the day, these are what's going to sustain you, enable you to live with yourself, and enable you to go sleep at night and reap the rewards of friendship, harmony, contentment, satisfaction, having enough. I mean, especially now since since executive compensation has changed, where you have these immense stock options, you know, we just sort of see the greed run riot. And we see this concept of the Buddhist hungry ghost of, you know, in the Hungry Ghost in the hell realms, the hungry ghost has a thin, thin neck and the swollen belly, and they have this voracious appetite that they can never fill because their necks are so thin they can't get it down. And so you see that the getting more just begets more yearning for more. And I was listening to the all in podcast talking about you get to the point where you understand that the money is just not going to cut it. You know, the destination of trying to get someplace and then getting there, and then finding out that there's this concept of novelty, right? Once the novelty is worn off, we just like, fall back into the same sort of apathy. So if you're smart as a young person, you'll figure that out in your 20s. You won't wait until your 40s and your

BEATE CHELETTE:

it's a lot more painful over here. Yes, when this when this happens? Well, it sounds to me like what you're saying is that there has to be a recognition that a lot of these strategies and systems that that are being put forward in business right now are almost like misleading. I call it the matrix, yeah, for the lack of a better word, and because I think this work really hits it so hard, especially since I lost everything in the fire where you where you're forced to take what really matters and what sustains us. I mean, obviously it's the money that we made and the insurance that we had in order for us to continue and rebuild, but what sustains us, just mentally, is our community and the people that we build relationships with. Would you say that following spiritual principles as a strategy takes longer than using these marketing techniques or these proven get rich quick methods that are being promoted? I

Penelope Holt:

think it's like anything else in life when you do the right thing, whether you're losing weight or working on your health, it's those small day to day habits, practices. The first thing I would say, I wish someone had told me in my 20s, you absolutely should incorporate a spiritual set of principles to guide you, because when you go into business, no one will tell you that. You may hear it from your mom or your family, but those you know it's your peers or your older mentors absolutely make it an imperative that you are guided by spiritual principles. Because even if you lose a job, you lose everything, you go backwards in your career, you take less money than more. Those spiritual principles will be the soft place to land. They will give your life meaning if you hit your wagon only to the material rewards, measurable rewards. In business, there are days when you will feel bankrupt. There are days when you may be bankrupt, but if you fill up that bank account with the fruits of those spiritual practices, then no matter what is happening in your business life, you're going to have a sense of fulfillment and purpose and harmony and contentment and gratitude. Said old joke that nobody lies on their deathbed and says, I wish I'd gone to that business meeting. I wish I hadn't missed that conference call two weeks from now, we don't even remember what the problem business problem du jour. Find practices that work for you. Find principles that you can bring into the because sometimes there's a conflict between the business principle and the spiritual principle, and there doesn't have to be. There's a one of my the Buddhist expression this being, so what must I do? And in any situation, the good business rigor is to say, you know, first principles, thinking, boil it down, don't make assumptions. So those are very logical and practical smart applications of business knowledge and business analysis. At the same time, in the in the Buddhist realm, there's, there's the eightfold path of being skillful, which is, how do I come to this spiritually? How do I come to the situation with the proper intention, with the proper effort, to you may have to fire people. You don't have to hurt them in the process of doing it, you may have to give people. Constructive feedback. You don't have to humiliate them in the process. You may be in situations where your things are going wrong and you're angry, you don't have to lose your temper. These spiritual ideas of right action can influence and shape your day to day behavior, which in turn is what's going to win you friends and help you influence people. And that's not something that you can make up or fake. You have to really, really practice that stuff. Yeah, and it

BEATE CHELETTE:

takes time. It just takes time. Just takes time. Yeah, yes. I mean, I feel that the most humbling experience in what I've been going through, and a lot of our friends that have gone through the same catastrophic event, is the community that showed up, and people showed up for us, some of whom we know, some of whom we don't know. I remember I had people from the Samaritans Purse, which is an organization that helps catastrophic event victims to dig through the rubble and find things. Those were people that left New Jersey and flew here, left their families to fly for six hours from New Jersey to Los Angeles to dig for one week that they did not get paid for, to provide a service out of humanity. And I get emotional talking about this, because in this moment, you realize that you do the right thing for so long, but you don't get the reward, and simply because you choose to live that particular way, and then in a moment like this, everything I've Ever done came back to me 1000 times, yeah, in generosity. Is there a principle behind this? Back to business and internet market? I think a lot of people manipulate this concept. Can you dive into this a little bit? Because I think this is a really, really critical part of the people need to understand. Yes, you can probably manipulate this principle, Yeah, but how do you do this? Right?

Penelope Holt:

Well, in marketing, there is a belief that the thing that drives the market is that market always rewards value if you have a genuine solution that someone is going I remember when my kids were little and you couldn't go to the bathroom for a two year old, and then you'd have to go for a haircut. You've got an unruly toddler, and I remember going to this one hairdresser where she set up this little station for the kids to play videos and eat cookies, and it was just this extra benefit that she had targeted busy, harried moms. And so I would forego any fancy salon just to go to that place where she was delivering that right amount of value. And so there is authenticity in genuine value. And a true marketer, everyone has equity. Everyone has something worthwhile and worth offering. And any good product has inherent equity. And the marketing then becomes about telling the story of that. If you've got some quick get quick, rich quick scheme that's not adding any value. It's the chances it's not going to work, but it's like anything else. If it's valid, if it's authentic, if it's true, equity, the market or your community is going to reward it. And talk going back to your story about losing everything in the fire, I think it's important to remember that nature abhors a vacuum. We think the House is burnt down and the world has stopped, and there's this just this huge vacuum. There's just this huge charred space where your life used to be. But nature abhors a vacuum, so things rush in to fill it, and typically it's a clarion call to the good people of the world that will fly across the country to help you and restore your faith in in life itself, in the there is a point of going on. There's goodness. You know, I may have lost all of these things over here, but you see the value of what's happening before your eyes. I mean, I've come out of business situations really, really beat up, where I'm this far away from thinking that, where are the decent people? You know, it's just dog eat dog. And then someone has come into my life. They get the joy out of being in the community, being of service, living by the golden rule, helping someone when they're down on LinkedIn. I don't know if you noticed, but sometimes when people leave a company, if they're downsized or they're fired, it's sort of like, it's like a disease that nobody wants to catch, and so they don't reach out. And I always make a point, if someone leaves the company, just reaching out, staying. In touch with them, letting them know that I'm here to help. I've been on the receiving end where all of the people drop you, like third period French, but then you get that rare person that will reach out and say, Hey, I'm here for you. It's not transactional. Relationships can be so transactional, but actually, the most business success I've ever had is by forging long term relationships over many years with people they say that, you know, COVID wrote that book, The Speed of Trust, that business moves at the speed of trust and the want. The people that we partner with, that we can go the longest with, are the ones that we can trust, and that are have the credibility and the trust to be with us, and it takes, it takes time to forge those relationships. And if you want those kind of people in your life, then you have to show up as that kind of person in their life. Yeah,

BEATE CHELETTE:

and that takes decades. In my moments of despair, I wondered, why do I feel compelled to give so much and information that I probably could charge for. But when the information comes through, it comes through. I always thought it was kind of hokey to say, Well, no, I just got a download for you, but here's the invoice you have to pay me to tell you, I feel, if something comes through in a particular moment that it is designed for me to share that with that person for whatever reason that is, and that might be just to get them to a particular point. They may never work with me. They may work with me in the future. But what would you say about the giving and the expectation of a return in these spiritual concepts? Because here's and the reason I ask this is because I think that there's a misconception here as well. I don't think it's just about giving. I think it's also about asking and receiving. What's your take on this?

Penelope Holt:

Well, I used to have an old coach who would say that one expectation is too many, and the Buddhists have a teaching that say drive all blames to self. It's just the idea that if you risk relationships that work best are reciprocal, right? It's just an ebb and a flow. It's not transactional, a quid pro quo. I did something for you. You did something for me, and I just wanted to circle back to the point that you made about things not being tangible, right? So you have to listen you. That's one of the other things that you have to do. You have to sort of get to know yourself inside and the voices that are speaking to you. So when this intangible voice says to Hey, B don't charge for this, give this as a gift, right? And you know to trust that, and then you give it to someone, and it's given genuinely, with a good heart, and it's received that way. And so then that's the beginnings of reciprocity. I'm touched by what you've done for me. I want, I want to repay you. And that is the best kind of engine that drives sort of mutual but I think if you having expectations, can be a real killer, because with expectation comes when they don't come through, can come anger and resentment. So and again, we're getting back to being transactional. So instead of working on being transactional, work on this notion of reciprocity, where you listen and you give when you're moved to give you honor that and you give. And, I mean, you'll give to some people who will never return. You just never know when it's going to come back to you. I mean, I've had friendships where I've done many things for people, and they've disappointed me, if I've allowed myself to have the expectation that they would in some way pay me back, and then how the other people have come into my life, like the people from New Jersey, Shonda pad of the blue and and given you a gift, which is a reward, a reward for your good, goodness. But it doesn't always. The point is, it doesn't always come

BEATE CHELETTE:

from the same spot, from places that we expect

Penelope Holt:

it to, nor should we expect it to, because we'll be in probably, but to know that there is goodness out there that people and, you know, it's like these conversations, to know in business, this is sort of people don't talk about this stuff. It's almost for bone, right? Yeah, but the world goes around, kind of, it's driven by spiritual people and to have confidence that they're out there and they're going to show up, and it's, it is, sort of the silent engine that's making things work for the good?

BEATE CHELETTE:

Do you believe there's been a much larger awakening with conscious leaders than we've seen in the past?

Penelope Holt:

I do be and I've got a theory as to why I think the world is becoming so chaotic because of the downside of interconnectedness. It is. Maybe these are just sort of the adolescent temper tantrums of of a new era in technology. But there's so much negativity, there's so much lying. There's just completely different perspectives that are in opposition, and people are they're end. Chris in endocrine systems are waxed. People are driven more and more by anger and outrage. I mean, it's actually a hormonal, you know, it's sort of an addiction to outrage. Renals are shut so I think the bottom line for me is I'm praying more because the I'm not getting answers from the world. You know, usually you turn on the news, you think you've got a source of truth. You go here. You go there, when you see so much chaos around you, and it's not exclusively chaotic. I mean, there's great voices in the wilderness. I think more people are turning to prayer. They're turning to the transcendent. They're turning to some higher power that is above this chaos and this mayhem. They're back to Taoism. They're looking for the universal order, for the good. I think that is kind of a calling to spirituality that people are just burning out on modern society, the way we're communicating, the way we're behaving with each other, the lack of trust. But people need that there's a God shaped hole. Prescal said, in all of our hearts, we try to find God in the day to day. I think more and more people are sort of looking up and reaching out to find a God of their a higher power, God of their own. Understanding. There are quite a few reasons, but I think that is one reason why people are becoming more spiritual, because they're having to, because their current sources of wisdom and truth are just not

BEATE CHELETTE:

I just not paying off. I love that. I think that's a beautiful way to put this. Because, you know, in the law of polarity, we believe that what exists on one side must exist on the other side. So if there's so much chaos on the one side, we already know that the opposite of that must exist on the other side. But because the chaos is so loud, we cannot hear the solution, because the solution is in process. I mean, the chaos is in action, so the solution must be in action. I like your way of looking at this and saying to turn to prayer. So finally, I want to just talk to you about you run a marketing company, and you also, you know, do your your personal business and your writing. How do you implement this, these principle in your marketing agency? Because for most people, this is the paradox. I was like, How can I market and follow these principles? Isn't marketing all about persuasion.

Penelope Holt:

Well, for me, personally, I work with people in companies that I believe in. I work primarily with people and I've, I will stay the course with a client. I've worked with clients who've said, I can't pay you three months. Is that okay? Because I've been on a mission with them. I believed in what they're doing. And listen, we all need money. We've all got to survive, but it's more important to me to be involved with something that is creative and worthwhile, is giving value to the market. I tried to bring that kind of authenticity. We know that with the Gen Z and the Gen alpha, traditional advertising is not reaching them anymore. There's this influencer marketing that is going on, and there's a lot of duplicity in that, but people are more and more moved by authenticity. They're tired of mass marketing, and we're creating trust circles, democratized information, so you can go on Yelp, you can go on trust pilot, and so all of those voices, those so we develop these trust circles of people that we trust for their opinion, and I think that, in turn, is forcing marketers into greater authenticity and hopefully shaking out some of the more sort of bogus strategies and products. It's driving more to authenticity versus manipulation, because that traditional advertising is just not working on young people anymore. It's

BEATE CHELETTE:

not working on anybody anymore. I mean, even, even stuff that you and I were seeing two years ago where we went, Wow, that's really good. It's not working anymore. And now in the first copy of AI, we thought, wow, that's really good. And now we go, oh my god, here's another one with AI. Technology was originally meant to help people solve problems. Now technology is being used to manipulate people, and that's why the systems are failing, because it's been misused. And so therefore, in a way, we need to be glad, and I don't think we can interfere with the breaking, I think, to your point, go back to the principles, yeah.

Penelope Holt:

And if you think about the old market economy, people would go to their local market, and they would see their friends, and they would buy fish from the fish, the fish lady. And there was intimacy, and there was relationship and there was connection, and of course, with mass market marketing, that went away. It became sort of anonymous, it became manipulative. And I think that with the interconnectedness of the internet, one of the benefits is we're kind of getting back to that intimacy. Okay, and it just astounds me the kind of content that people are consuming online. It's real people. We're very voyeuristic. We're we're we don't want these, we used to call it in advertising, the beauty box. You know, it would be the polished, the Polish they take. Take that like a food that you see that's curated. Very often it's artificial, or it's, you know, jacked up

BEATE CHELETTE:

with projected. Yes, it's like

Penelope Holt:

a, you know, facade, and so people don't want that facade. One good thing that is coming out is all the content creators is you're finding very genuine and authentic people speaking with a true voice. And it's fascinating what people are watching and how they're and some of these micro influencers, you know, we think of the Kardashians and the people with the big, big followings, but a lot of the research is saying that some of these micro influencers, the more real people. They may not have as big a following, but they're just sort of more authentic. The authenticity is going to become a real, cherished commodity as we move forward. Because if everybody can write a brilliantly crafted marketing piece or flyer, people are gonna we're starting to see through that. And so we're crave. We're crave, craving, you know, leadership, yeah, thought leadership and authenticity and stuff original and

BEATE CHELETTE:

original idea. I think that's exactly right, because everything sounds so generic and and the same that it becomes, becomes really, really, really, really boring. I like where we went with this interview. This was very, very fun. So for somebody who now wants to know more about you, potentially wants to work with you, where are we sending them?

Penelope Holt:

Well, I prefer to send people to penelopeholt.com which is my author site. It's got my book, "Emotional Intelligence At Work," which is kind of a pun, because it's emotional intelligence at work. And there's some of my fiction on there. I wrote a book called"The Angel Scroll," a novel about a about three miraculous paintings. And we live in this world where we think we can go and open a book, or we can go and ask an expert it we forget that we can, we can actually ask the universe, and nine times out of 10, we will get an answer,

BEATE CHELETTE:

yes. I certainly hope so. I mean, the whole experience taken us to really double down on a lot of the meaning and the purpose on what's behind everything. You can put a strategy behind anything, but you gotta be happy first.

Penelope Holt:

Yeah. And you know they say in business, culture eats strategy for lunch. Well,

BEATE CHELETTE:

that certainly is not the truth right now. It's the exact opposite. It's the dismantling of the culture, which is why I really believe in the founders of the future, we building now for the future, not for now. And that's really something I've been wanting to get across with this show is to say, yes, it's hard right now, no question. And it's a difficult environment, and it is brutal to watch, and you want to step in and you want to tell people that are doing this irreparable harm, you're hurting people, but at the same time, we cannot interfere, because this is it's written that this is happening and it must happen because there's something that comes after, there you go, and that's where we are at. Thank you for being on the show, and that's it for us for today. Thank you so much for listening or watching this episode of the Business Growth Architect Show. If you know someone who wants to implement spiritual principles, or is spiritually curious, that would be a great episode to share with them. Go ahead and send them the link a review, a five star review, is always appreciated and until next time and GOODBYE. So appreciate you being here. Thank you so much for listening to the entire episode. Please subscribe to the podcast. Give us a five star, review, a comment and share this episode with one more person, so that you can help us help more people. Thank you again, until next time. Goodbye.

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Beate Chelette

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Penelope Holt

Guest