Business Growth Architect Show

Ep #129: Marshall Davis Jones: Speak Clear, Confident, and Persuasive Every Time

• Beate Chelette • Episode 129

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Struggling with public speaking? Discover simple tips to speak clearly, confidently, and persuasively every time with Marshall Davis Jones. Use your body language and tonal influence to be heard and understood every time you speak.

In this episode of Business Growth Architect Show, Marshall Davis Jones invites us to an exploration of tonality, spiritual awareness, and their pivotal roles in enhancing interpersonal communication. An expert in tonal influence, Marshall offers a compelling narrative that unveils the transformative power of communication by paying attention to small details.

Marshall begins by unraveling the subtle yet impactful aspects of tonality in our daily interactions. He emphasizes that how we say something can often be more important than what we say. "Our tonal quality," he explains, "is like a hidden language that conveys emotions, intentions, and deeper meanings beyond mere words." 

"Imagine a conversation," Marshall prompts, "where the speaker's voice exudes confidence and clarity versus one where uncertainty or hesitation seeps through. The difference in impact is palpable." He explores techniques for mastering tonal influence, advocating for practices that enhance vocal resonance, cadence, and emotional expression. 

Moving beyond tonality, Marshall explores the intersection of spiritual awareness and interpersonal dynamics. He thinks that true communication goes beyond verbal exchange; it encompasses a deeper connection rooted in spiritual alignment.

Marshall shares insights into how cultivating spiritual awareness enhances empathy, authenticity, and mutual understanding in relationships. "It's about being present," he notes, "and acknowledging the energetic exchange that occurs in every interaction." He encourages you to explore mindfulness practices that promote clarity, compassion, and a deeper connection with oneself and others.

Marshall offers practical strategies designed to elevate communication skills. He advocates for active listening as a cornerstone of effective communication, emphasizing the importance of listening not only to words but also to emotions and underlying messages. 

Central to Marshall's teachings is the integration of spiritual awareness with practical communication skills. He invites you to explore how embodying authenticity and mindfulness can transform everyday conversations into meaningful exchanges. "Communication," Marshall emphasizes, "is not just about conveying information; it's about forging connections and nurturing relationships."

To further engage with Marshall's teachings and deepen your understanding, you are encouraged to visit his website at www.tonalinfluence.com. This platform offers additional resources, including Marshall's acclaimed book, "Tonal Influence: How to Listen Better, Speak Clearer, and Set the Tone," which provides comprehensive guidance on mastering the art of communication.

Resources Mentioned:
 

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Marshall Davis Jones:

I was just told to drop out of my head and get into my heart, and I'm taking that advice for this intro. My name is Marshall Davis Jones. I'm the founder of Mind Body speak and the author of tonal influence, how to listen better, speak clearer and set the tone. Now my line of work, I make sure that people say what they mean and mean how they said it, but also that they hear what they heard and are sure of how they heard it. Now, if this does nothing for your business, then Netflix is waiting for you. But if that's something that could help, stay tuned. And

BEATE CHELETTE:

hello, fabulous person. Beate chelette, here I am the host of the business growth architect Joe, and I want to welcome you to today's episode where we discuss how to navigate strategy and spirituality to achieve time and financial freedom. Truly successful people have learned how to master both a clear intention and a strategy to execute that in a spiritual practice that will help them to stay in alignment and on purpose. Please enjoy the show and listen to what our guest today has to say about this very topic. Welcome, welcome, welcome. Today, we're going to talk about something that everybody that talks should know about, and that is tonality, what you say, how you say it, how what it is sad is being interpreted, and who better than Marshall Davis Jones from Mind Body Speak, Marshall. Welcome to the show.

Marshall Davis Jones:

Great. Thank you. Thank you very much for having me.

BEATE CHELETTE:

So for somebody who doesn't know what you do and never heard of you, will you please explain to our audience who you are, what you do, and what is the problem that you solve for your clients.

Marshall Davis Jones:

So, I make sure that people say what they mean and mean how they said it, so that there's no questions when they communicate, that there is absolute clarity. But also I give them tools to make sure that they heard what they heard and are sure of how they heard it, because there's two people or three or four, whoever many that are having a discussion. And so the problem that I'm solving is to ensure that communication actually occurred, that there is clarity and succinctness, so that the activities that are meant to follow based on said communication are activated on and conflicts are resolved if they're not.

BEATE CHELETTE:

My father had a great quote. My father always told me that language is the source of all misunderstanding, and it really is to be something to be said. When I say something, and then let's say, my daughter says, I can't believe you said that. And she repeats, and I said, but that's not at all what I said. Those weren't even the words that I use, and she says, but I know that's what you meant to say, but I didn't say that. So give us some examples of where these challenges in the clarity of the communication really can bite us in the butt.

Marshall Davis Jones:

How many times you know they play the game? What's it? Telephone, telephone, yes, yeah. And you have a line of people, and you're like, just make sure the message is exactly what I said. And sometimes the game of telephone, as you just demonstrated, across the line, like I just said this to you, and you just repeat it back to me, something that I didn't say. What we're dealing with is everyone's interpretation of what we're saying, and that is the challenge, because at any given point, nothing that we're saying is absolute. It's always an approximation. Or rather, the way that I like to bring it forward is to assume that it isn't the bullseye, right? It was very rare that someone feels like we hit a bullseye. More often than not, we're like around the mark, and if we're not around the mark and we're a little colder, then we leave room for that. What is interesting is that tone and the body communicating fills in some extra gaps that words alone are not communicating. And so you're dealing with how someone is perceiving you, how you're saying what you're saying, and then the body, or the embodiment of how you're delivering that, and all of that is giving people a sense of meaning, and they interpret that as they want to.

BEATE CHELETTE:

I would like to dive into this, like within with a very specific example of something. You work a lot with executives and in companies where the leader is misunderstood. So I'm sure that the leader is coming to you because he probably thinks that everybody else doesn't hear what he's saying. And so they need to learn on how to listen better, and then for you only to find out that it's the way the leader probably articulates it. So take us through sort of a scenario, how something like this looks like. Because what you're talking about, do people have awareness on how they come across, on what they say and how they say it?

Marshall Davis Jones:

I'll give you an example. So I had an executive, high powered design company, a lot of things that you've seen that are influenced by this design house, and over the pandemic, there was a massive challenge, because he's used to just firing off 1, 2, 3, fix this. Fix this, fix this. The thing is, he didn't have the kitchen space that was in the building that they worked out of where it's like, yeah, I just gave you directives. But then they had this other space, which was like another room. It changed the setting, but that opportunity to communicate and warm up even after you've just given these directives, that wasn't there. So what was going on is that he's just given directives, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, and then and meeting. So the context of how what he was using for years, and what was working, all of those dimensions changed how he was coming across. Now I say this to say that most people think that when someone says, oh, you know you need to communicate better, they judge themselves very harshly. And I try to avoid that, because whatever, whatever got you here, got you here, right? Whatever style and these are all reflexes that you've had, that you've learned that got you here. What happens now is the context of how we communicate digitally, globally, culturally, are these new paradigms that are smashing themselves together, and we have to adapt. And so some things you have, you may need to keep, but there are other nuances that you just may want to be aware of. And so with him, it was about recognizing the context, softening the edge. Nobody that's in a position of leadership has like this perfect streak, even if you have some sort of saintly leader, people like, oh, we all love there's somebody that doesn't like what they're doing, doesn't like what they said, isn't like how they said it. But the real question is, do the people that you work with want to follow you where you're leading them, which changes the question and changes what we're paying attention to, and then the question about whether or not people want to go where you're taking them.

BEATE CHELETTE:

So you were saying that there are two things that I'm hearing here. So number one is, as the boss, I can say whatever I want and expect my team to execute on my instructions, on whether I bark at them, give them the thing in a bullet point, make it more enticing, but only if I really step into understanding on my tonality or how I say it, will I people to actually get to follow me. Not do what I tell them to, but follow me. What's the difference? Where's the benefit for the business here, when

Marshall Davis Jones:

someone does what they're told, you have this interesting gap where you know whatever their incentive is, which most likely is the pay. All right, I'm just doing my job. When someone's willing to follow you. Those are the people. The benefit for your business is that there's a certain connection that people have to seeing the vision. And this is where you have this opportunity. And I say opportunity because that's the best word I can use, however you could take advantage of that on one side, and that's the dark side of that all that's the dark side of charisma, is that people are willing to go where you're going, and they invest themselves above and beyond. At the same time, when you do have people that are willing to do this for you, with you, you have an you as a leader. Have an opportunity to reciprocate that understanding, but also, you know that these people are willing to go above and beyond to make the vision the shared vision that you have come to life. And there are very few circles of people that do not benefit from one over the other, right? The transactional like you pay me, I do my job goodbye versus I'm invested in this becoming and I will go with you to make that happen. It's a different energy.

BEATE CHELETTE:

I mean, we're seeing this in the political climate, unfortunately, all over the world, more now than we've seen it in many, many decades. And you call it the dark side of charisma, which I've never heard that term, but I think it's a very fascinating and probably very accurate way is charisma is not always positive, is it?

Marshall Davis Jones:

I'm sure you can probably list a few places where you've seen charismatic people lead people astray. Speaking of a voice, was it Elizabeth Holmes is like this example of someone who's

BEATE CHELETTE:

the crypto guy, yeah, whatever his name was, yes, yes, yes, yes. And

Marshall Davis Jones:

you recognize that all of these things are they're all skills and they're all tools, but so is fire, right? Like so fire is a tool, and I can use it to warm my home, but I can also use it to burn something down. This is kind of you. Know, Yin Yang, balance of Listen, everything that we can do, everything that we can be good at, can harm or help, doesn't matter what it is, doesn't matter how your intentions are, doesn't matter once you have power, it's just power. It doesn't have like, a good or a bad that's all subjective, that's based on how people want to see it. But once you possess it, I mean, you have it, and it's interesting, what people do with it when they get it. And that could be influenced by a multitude of things, right?

BEATE CHELETTE:

What I'm hearing here is, there's a skill I can learn. This is a learnable skill, I assume, because otherwise you wouldn't have no business. So if I bring you in and I help you, have you helped me to do this, I probably will be able to do this, but I still have to make the decision on whether or not I want to make this voice be heard for the greater good or for my own good or for the not so good. Can we go through an example that where somebody said something, a sentence or given instruction, and it was perceived a particular way, and then you help them with the tonality. So do we have an example we can give our audience in action?

Marshall Davis Jones:

So, I have a scenario. Actually, there was a i, a VP of hedge fund who wanted to acquire the software company that they were using. They didn't want the software to be a consultancy anymore. They wanted to buy it. And the gentleman making the offer very fiery, like, you don't get to that place by being a pushover, right? So he's coming in hot like, Are you dumb? We're offering you X amount of dollars. Let's just go with it. And what was less important was what he was saying. That it was the responses the gentleman was saying, I'm losing sleep at night about this deal, and he told him about another scenario. And so I was like, Wait a minute. Okay, let's back up a second. This man is telling you he's losing sleep, thinking about if someone's being honest enough to tell you that they're losing sleep about it, and also sharing a bit of a horror story from another experience. How far do you think you're gonna get by calling him an idiot person again, it wasn't saying like you're stupid, but his affect was like, Look, we're offering you this. This is a great deal. What is wrong with you? And that was just in his demeanor. When we think about tonality, I don't just focus on the tonality of what comes out of your mouth, but also the tonality of how you're listening to other people. There's a tone to that as well. So I told him to adjust the way that he was receiving like instead of seeing this person as like an

BEATE CHELETTE:

idiot who wasn't taking the deal right. Absolutely, absolutely allow

Marshall Davis Jones:

him this space to vent this out, and you're gonna have to communicate with him in a way to deescalate the fear that he's telling you the deal is secondary, the first thing you're gonna bypass, because he's not gonna sell you this, he's not gonna do this. He's telling you he's mortified. And so what wound up happening was about to about four, four weeks later, because we had just started working together, and I said, you have anything you're dealing with right now. And that was his problem acute. And he had a meeting with that person immediately after our session, when we finished everything, I circled around and said, hey, whatever happened? And he said, Oh. He said, Oh, yeah, no, what we talked about helped move this along. And in fact, he said my partner came to me and said, I don't know what you said or how you said it, but that's what got us over the line. And so what I'm illustrating, and I want to bring forward, is most of the time we're thinking about like what the performance of speech, that's one way to think of your tone, or setting the tone, but the way that you're behaving as you're receiving information, especially when you're in a position of power, like your leadership, or you're offering the money, whatever it is, there's a tone to that as well, and people are watching that and they're responding. Have you ever had a situation where you can see the quality of how someone's listening to you based on how they're moving, based on their facial expressions, based on their gestures, and your start, your interpret. That's information as well. It's not speech, but that's information, and that's probably shifting how you're saying what you're saying, because you're like, create a space to listen differently so this person can calm down, and then you can talk about whatever you need.

BEATE CHELETTE:

Yes. I like that a lot, and we will be right back after this quick message. Marshall, this was really fascinating. We talking about a version of really active listening, where something that we say, or that said was said to us, doesn't sit right with us. I do a lot of facilitation, and in facilitation, I mean, you can say the same thing to 10 people. People, and not 10 people will hear the same things. It's because they perceive it. Perceive it all different. I believe that as a leader, you want to make sure that what you say is landing right. That's what I'm hearing you say. So in order for me, as the person who says it, to understand, does it land what I just said, is there a tool that you can give our audience on how to verify this? Because I'm sure a lot of people are guessing, but that's what I said. I don't know what is wrong with him that he didn't get that.

Marshall Davis Jones:

You know, the only place where you can be spot certain that you're landing is if you're a comedian, because the feedback is direct. They laugh or they don't. Everybody else is playing a very different game of, is it though?

BEATE CHELETTE:

Okay, okay, let's keep going here.

Marshall Davis Jones:

So, you know, let's say you're being like, you know, the other end of the spectrum is like tragedy, right? Tragedian, if that's the word, I think it's the poor Shakespeare. It takes a while to get somebody stirred up into weeping, right? Like on the other end, or like, SHA and all that other good stuff. Or you can notice things, and you notify but then you also have to verify. And verifying is interesting because we look at body language. Body language could be, for you, the speaker, but really, body language is indicative of how they're thinking about their own thinking, not even about what you're saying. They're thinking about what they think about what you're saying, which is like doo doo doo doo doo, which is why you have a situation where you talk to your daughter and she didn't, she didn't respond to what you said. She responded to what she thought about what you said. That's what you know. Like you're you leave words, leave your mouth, and they they're gone. They belong.

BEATE CHELETTE:

Words leave your mouth and they're gone. That's like, that's like a like a comic, right? They

Marshall Davis Jones:

listen. They belong to the ears of the hearer. Now, okay? And they are at the mercy of their thought patterns and their beliefs. So the best that we can do is, like I said, you want to make sure that communication happened. In leadership terms in business, it's mostly about whether or not something's going to get done. There's a show called my 600 pound life with spot accuracy. The doctor says the same thing to everybody over and over

BEATE CHELETTE:

and over again. I've watched it. It's amazing to me. He says, You don't change, you will die.

Marshall Davis Jones:

Yes, same thing, very matter of factly. Now you've watched the show enough. How many times just by the VO alone, can you tell who's gonna do the work and who's not

BEATE CHELETTE:

like all the time? Because it's a squirming on the seat. It's the immediate excuse. I'll do what I can. We'll see how it goes. I'm fully committed. And you just kind of know they are not really doing the work. They're not wanting to do the work.

Marshall Davis Jones:

And then it goes as it goes. And then the ones who are going to you can hear the certainty that they are going to do what is required. And so when we're looking for verification about whether something's landing, that's that goes back into actively listening to the tone with which people are delivering responses, because there is a difference, and you can detect these things, and it's very subtle. We underestimate the power of what we're able to gather from our environment. We have to remember our auditory senses 360 degrees, and it's designed to protect us. So we're pretty good at going. I'm not sure if that person, and that's when you use the opportunity to ask certain questions, like, you know, is there anything that you're concerned about? Is there anything that would get in the way of getting this done? Especially if you hear any shred of uncertainty, there's something most people, though, will hear that uncertainty, even the little dash of it, and let it go. And then what happens later is, when something didn't get done, they'll go back to that conversation and go, you know, I had a feeling.

BEATE CHELETTE:

I had a sense, yeah, amazing. And what a great segue for us, Marshall, to take this to the second part of the show in the spirituality is that not where spirituality shows up in your work is that hunch, the knowing, the feeling. Tell us about that.

Marshall Davis Jones:

So, it's interesting, our senses give us this magnificent panorama of the world that we're looking for. It's like when you buy a car you want. Even thinking about this car, and then once you buy the car, it's everywhere. It's like, oh, there's my car, there's my car. Again, there's my car, there's my car. I think that whatever we consider to be spiritual, or whatever we consider to be, you know, this invisible force between us, you know, and I think quantum physics is starting to try to make sense of this scientifically. Like, what is it about us enmeshed with each other or with this universe? You look at an atom, or you look at any object under a strong enough microscope, nothing's touching each other. Like, how do you know? It's all energy. It's like, how

BEATE CHELETTE:

does it even work. It's like,

Marshall Davis Jones:

right, right. Like, how did? It's like, oh, no, that's, that's a kettlebell. No, those are atoms. Oh, that's a pot.

BEATE CHELETTE:

We are in the matrix.

Marshall Davis Jones:

Absolutely, absolutely. And so here we're all made. And everything is made of this substance, this stuff, and our navigation through this substance, through this stuff, is contingent upon our awareness of it, and our awareness on some sort of deep cellular level. If you look at it, there's this thing called epigenetics, which is basically how your environment changes you. And there's this photo series called"We Are The Not Dead". And it was a woman who was taking pictures of people six months before they deployed, six months into deployment, and six months after. And if you go and you look at these photos, and you see what being in that environment does to people's entirety, the environment of war, how it changes. You think spirituality is an environment that you can create. And you go to a monastery, you go to places

BEATE CHELETTE:

That's amazing. I like this angle of saying that that house, you know, spiritual practices you can walk in. And it's something palpable. We don't have the science necessarily to stick something in the air and like, scrape it off and look at it. But there's an environment, and people that frequent those environments, there is a, you know, an epigenetic change I would imagine. And so in this line of work, my goal is to teach people how to create an environment with how they communicate. You've ever gone into a room where you just showed up and you walk in and you can tell, like, whoa, everything okay, like no one said anything to you, you can just walk in and you just doubt, Is everybody all right, what's going on? So there's always this flowing something that we are whether they call them chemo signals, or some people that talk about pheromones, because emotions change how we smell, they change off the chemicals that we give off, emotional contagion that can lead other people to feeling like whatever we call it, we'll get there. We'll get to a place. But there's something about stuff that we give off that connects us to other people, and when we're in proximity that affects us. And so I look at spirituality as any environment, and sometimes those environments are they're benevolent, and sometimes they're malevolent. Depends air is air, but air at a certain pressure is a hurricane or a tornado. We're in this field, and we our emotions, our thoughts, our behaviors, change the field around us, and that's what we carry into a space that's the air of confidence that people can have, and so giving people that access to affect the weather around them. We say, oh, walking around with a storm cloud. Okay, that's the environment that that person has created around them. That is how they are maneuvering, for lack of a better word, their spirit. You get access to being able to maneuver your spirit in a way that has a palpable effect on other people, mostly invisible. Think about tone. Most people are assuming that they're gonna like, I'm gonna say something, and then what we're wanna focus on is the invisible field, the way that you walk into a space, the way that you use your limbs, the way that you change your direction when you're shifting attention, all of these different things are sending out a status update of the environment that's inside of you, and giving people access and power to control that as much as they can. I find to be rewarding to especially as I watch people feel, see, experience things they didn't think were possible spirituality in the context of tonality or interpersonal communication, is also about the signals that you give off, how you feel about yourself, how you feel into other people. And their energy, you are absolutely correct. We all been in a room where there's one person that walks in, and the whole energy in the room changes. When I speak, I routinely go in the space before my slot, and I stand in the corner, I feel the energy and I see that I can move it to make it, to make it more receptive to what I'm about to say spirituality is not always religion and but spirituality is also an understanding how things connect with each other, which I think was a very powerful and good argument you just made. So I hope you drove that point home about in the communication aspect of things, and then tonality, that your energy also has something to do with how you're being understood and how you understand others in that context. So Marshall, for somebody who now goes, well, this guy's really interesting. I should check out what's his work all about. Or maybe work with him. Where will we send them?

Marshall Davis Jones:

You can either go to www.tonalinfluence.com or www.mindbodyspeak.com you could also go to amazon.com and pick up Tonal Influence, how to listen better, speak clearer and set the tone. You can get the book or listen to the audiobook, whichever you wish to do. And I look forward to hearing

BEATE CHELETTE:

excellent Well, thank you so much. It's been a pleasure to have you on the show. Thank you so much for being here.

Marshall Davis Jones:

All right now, thank you.

BEATE CHELETTE:

Take care, and that's it for us for today. If you are listening and you know someone who really could benefit from being heard in a better way, or possibly listen better, will you please share this episode with one other person today who needs to hear what we were speaking about today, and that's it for us, for today and until next time and GOODBYE. So appreciate you being here. Thank you so much for listening to the entire episode. Please subscribe to the podcast, give us a five star, review, a comment and share this episode with one more person so that you can help us, help more people. Thank you again, until next time. Goodbye. You.

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